Monday Morning Quarterback Part II
By BOP Staff
July 29, 2013
BoxOfficeProphets.com
Jay Barney: Perhaps giving the fans what they want is the problem here. I know the amount of money behind these projects is substantial, but adding Wolverine to the Avengers seems like something they would want to build up to.
Felix Quinonez: Again, I might not be too objective about this but I don't think superhero fatigue is a real thing. If it was possible for these movies to come out on a monthly basis like the comics, I would be there every week. I just saw The Wolverine today and the very next movie I see at the theaters will be The Wolverine for the second time. And I can't wait till Thor comes out, then Captain America, then Spidey, then X-Men. So, yeah that's my opinion on that.
As far as bringing Wolvie into the Avengers 2 I think it would definitely bring some excitement for some people and in it might give an uptick in attendance (if that's even possible, The Avengers was sooo big). But from a storytelling point of view I think it might actually be a detriment. How many big names can you really juggle in one movie? And I don't think you can put Wolverine in a movie and keep him in the sidelines. I mean the X-Men movies were pretty much Wolverine movies. And with the Avengers, they've already got Iron Man front and center. I think it might actually be too much.
Bruce Hall: We're talking about superhero fatigue in a year when Iron Man 3 absolutely crushed it, and the latest Superman film opened to $116 million despite an interminable run time, and an almost fatally flawed third act? I stick by my earlier assertion that The Wolverine was a victim of the previous film's horribleness, and the fact that this character is nowhere near as popular with the general public as either Superman or Robert Downey Jr.
And, I don't think adding Wolverine to Avengers 2 would matter much narratively. First of all, an X-Men/Avengers team up would make more sense in general, but both franchises are already bloated with characters as it is. Plus, we've heard a lot of wild rumors about the next Avengers movie, and until I see some evidence I'm okay treating them as just that. And regardless of all this, now that Downey has signed on the dotted line, Avengers 2 is going to make all the money in the world when it opens - no matter what - and everyone knows it. Start buying gold now, because there will BE no currency left to spend after May 1, 2015.
Jim Van Nest: As long as the movies are good, I don't think there will be superhero fatigue. I mean, do people get sci-fi fatigue? Or horror fatigue? If the films are quality, people will keep watching. As for adding Wolverine to the Avengers...the thought of adding Jackman's Wolverine to Downey's Tony Stark is pretty awesome. But, I'm not sure it can work. I agree with Felix that I'm not sure you can bring in Wolverine and make him play second fiddle to anyone.
Kim Hollis: I know *I* have superhero fatigue. Maybe it's not a thing, but I'm getting a little bored with the same characters being presented again and again through sequel, reboot and whatever. There are circumstances where I'm more excited (Iron Man, yes), but I've traditionally been the world's biggest Batman fan and the idea of a Batman/Superman movie makes me shrug my shoulders. I didn't see Superman and I don't really have much desire to see The Wolverine, either (and I *like* Hugh Jackman). I guess I'm at the point where I want something new and different in movies, and I'm just not getting much of that at all these days, whether it be in comic book adaptations, sci-fi, or other. Maybe it's lack of originality fatigue.
As for Wolverine in The Avengers, I tend to agree that we're throwing too many characters into the cast. If it was a TV series where you had more time to focus on the characters individually, it would be different, but a two-hour film just doesn't lend itself well to an overstuffed cast. Hell, I thought there were too many characters in Batman Returns back in the day.
David Mumpower: I absolutely believe that superhero fatigue is an issue in the same manner that 3D fatigue is a factor as well. People have mentioned that Iron Man 3 and Man of Steel still did well. Even if I believed Man of Steel had managed anything other than a mediocre total domestically, which I don't, that still would not be the issue. Those two titles are on the grander scale. The issue stems from the bottom feeding titles, the derivative releases that capitalize on the popularity of a trend.
With 3D releases, Wrath of the Titans and Ghost Rider: Spirit of Vengeance are great examples of movies that had no business being created yet they were because the content owners wanted to capitalize on a trend, consequences be damned. R.I.P.D. is a great example of the same scenario unfolding with superhero titles, as is The Wolverine. Look, I love that character and I love Hugh Jackman portraying him. Was the world begging for a new Wolverine movie, though? Of course not. A new one was produced because Fox wanted a potential blockbuster on their summer 2013 schedule. It is a place holder, shameless commerce instead of imaginative art. The fact that the movie is solid is a credit to the people involved, but the decision was made in the sterile isolation of a boardroom where spreadsheets were the primary determinant. That type of moviemaking leads to saturation as well as a point of diminishing returns at the box office. Comic book movie concepts better be special if they want to stand out in the coming few years.
With regards to the inclusion of Wolverine in The Avengers, I believe Jackman would add quite a bit to the story. That angry loner with killer instinct would counterbalance the more genteel Avengers in place. From Disney's perspective, however, Hawkeye and Black Widow already fill that niche, at least to an extent. And Avengers 2 and 3 are going to earn a shattering amount of money whether Jackman is involved or not. The spreadsheet calculation they need to perform is to decide whether the presence of Jackman adds enough to the bottom line to justify the capital outlay Fox would want to license their character. As much as I would like to see Jackman in the role, I don't think the numbers add up.
Kim Hollis: Fruitvale Station finished in tenth place with $4.6 million. The Sundance Film Festival winner has been released in an odd period for a legitimate awards contender. What do you think of its box office result? What are its awards chances?
Jay Barney: The success of Fruitvale Station is just something that has to be praised. We spend so much of our time talking about the big blockbusters and huge profits, but sometimes we forget there is a marvelous market of indie films out there. Fruitvale Station isn’t going to set the world on fire, but it appears to have already made a profit, and cracking the top ten is a significant achievement.
I haven't seen it yet, so I can't offer a comment on its awards chances.
Felix Quinonez: I think this is a fantastic box office performance. I'm very happy that it was able to sneak into the top 10. So often we hear about studios cutting back on small indie films like this that it's great when one breaks out to remind them that there is an audience for this stuff. I haven't seen this movie so I can't really say whether it's an Oscar contender or not.
Bruce Hall: This movie not only cracked the top ten in total gross, but it had the fourth highest per screen average on just over a thousand screens. That's sort of a big deal. Fruitvale Station has been a big success in limited release and word-of-mouth is currently very hot. Its performance so far, plus the subject matter almost guarantee it will at least be in the conversation come awards time.
Kim Hollis: Bruce, I think you're absolutely right that its subject matter is going to be important when awards nominations start being discussed. It's all but impossible to ignore its similarities to the Trayvon Martin case, and it happens to have been released right when emotions are high and thoughtful people want a movie that gives their brain some work. I'm extremely happy that Michael B. Jordan (Friday Night Lights TV series, Chronicle) is seeing some success with the film, because I think he's legitimately one of the finer young talents working today.